Devils v Steelers. Sun. Game Thread

[Lafleur]

[
I wasn't at the game, but...

...was what Dagenais did calculated or likely to cause serious injury? That was Dave Matsos' claim about what Voth did. If the league don't think so when they view the tape, fair enough - all part of the game. But if they decide it was calculated/reckless then none of your 'he started it mister' bleating can possibly justify it.

Of course I am making an assumption here, that the league are intelligent, objective, and responsible

Lafleur

You cant possibly prove intent though, if you convict someone on something that you think they pre intended then every time jody has a penalty against him due to something he has done to Voth then maybe we can roll out his paper article from last season saying how he was going to 'get him' for the hit on tait.

At the end of the day to convict someone on something you Think they have intended opens a whole can of worms and people could be appealing for bans right left and centre.

I am not talking about reading people's minds or paying attention to what they said or wrote. I am talking about finding evidence for their intentions in what they did. I wouldn't want to inflict serious punishment on the basis of ambiguous evidence, but I can't see how you can argue that there can no case where the intent is clear. Maybe Bertuzzi was innocent.

Hugh

[block119er]

I wasn't there so can't comment on any incidents.

But I feel this has/will be taken out of all preportions by some people (mostly the fans on both sides), it's hockey folks, if the Steelers do get the tape viewed by the league and the league decide, there's no ban/charge to answer then that's it, if they do so be it. The rest is just to get bums on seats (By the way Well Done To Cardiff For The Sell Out).

Looking forward to "The Stir" reports the days before the next Cardiff game, let's see what Uncle Bob W writes then!!!!!!!

[Doom]

You cant possibly prove intent though, if you convict someone on something that you think they pre intended then every time jody has a penalty against him due to something he has done to Voth then maybe we can roll out his paper article from last season saying how he was going to 'get him' for the hit on tait.


At the end of the day to convict someone on something you Think they have intended opens a whole can of worms and people could be appealing for bans right left and centre.

So let me put this scenario to you.

At the next Steelers game one of our players comes onto the ice and goes straight over to Voth. As he gets close he takes an almighty swing at Voths head with his stick, fortunately though Voth sees it coming and ducks out of the way and the stick misses him by millimetres.

The rest of the players then get hold of the guy who took the swing and stop anything further from happening.

Are you suggesting our player shouldn't get a ban because he didn't hit his intended target? Afterall, I suppose the player could claim he slipped and the stick swung up as a consequence of him falling forward in Voths direction.

I don't know what happened on Sunday and I suspect all this paper talk is just to hype up the next game, but I'm not convinced a player shouldn't get a ban just because a player avoided contact.

[swift]

I'm lost , did Voth take an almighty swing at someones head ???

[Doom]

I'm lost , did Voth take an almighty swing at someones head ???

Of course not, I was just using that as an extreme example to Gazza that all because someone doesn't make contact, it doesn't mean an incident isn't worthy of a ban.

[monkey]

Can i just say that in Cardiff on Sunday I had prime view point, and by far the dirtiest player on the ice was Cardiff Number 22. He wants to try and remember his stick should be used with the puck.

I havent seen any player in last few sasons (voth and panthers included) who felt such requirements to slash, knee, push and pucnc offthe play. It was quite poor but then so was his attempt at using his stick with the puck as well.

The one good thing in Cardiff was two young lads, Towe and Dowd. Towe should never have been able to leave sheffield he was awesonme on sunday as was Dowd.

Voth is just a bully but like Doom said until the red mist decends he usually is quite entertainaing, not like number 22.

[Finny]

I'm lost , did Voth take an almighty swing at someones head ???

No. Jody did take a swing at Voth head with a stick and it connected, but it wasn't very hard and only got 2 minutes.

BAN HIM!

BAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN HHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doom]

I'm lost , did Voth take an almighty swing at someones head ???

No. Jody did take a swing at Voth head with a stick and it connected, but it wasn't very hard and only got 2 minutes.

BAN HIM!

BAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN HHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed....and bring in Pasi as his cover.

[Gazzathedevil]

You cant possibly prove intent though, if you convict someone on something that you think they pre intended then every time jody has a penalty against him due to something he has done to Voth then maybe we can roll out his paper article from last season saying how he was going to 'get him' for the hit on tait.


At the end of the day to convict someone on something you Think they have intended opens a whole can of worms and people could be appealing for bans right left and centre.

So let me put this scenario to you.

At the next Steelers game one of our players comes onto the ice and goes straight over to Voth. As he gets close he takes an almighty swing at Voths head with his stick, fortunately though Voth sees it coming and ducks out of the way and the stick misses him by millimetres.

The rest of the players then get hold of the guy who took the swing and stop anything further from happening.

Are you suggesting our player shouldn't get a ban because he didn't hit his intended target? Afterall, I suppose the player could claim he slipped and the stick swung up as a consequence of him falling forward in Voths direction.

I don't know what happened on Sunday and I suspect all this paper talk is just to hype up the next game, but I'm not convinced a player shouldn't get a ban just because a player avoided contact.

My opinion is based on attempt to injure, Voth threw a check which is extremely hard to judge. If you start banning people on throwing checks then again there is going to be a lot of bans. If someone is wailing their stick around at head heights then there is only one thing they are doing. It's two different extremes really. However There is always that grey area when things dont connect. For example last season if Jim sheppard has missed Mark Dutiaume with his spear would he have got the 6 game ban? i tend to think he wouldnt have done. You have to in Voth's case prove that the charge was meant to hurt dagenais to the point of injury rather than just send him a message. I cant see how that can be done.



If Voth got a one game ban for the Slash on Dagenais Knee to be honest i wouldnt have any complaints, it was a poor show on his part and possibly deserved a match penalty. However the Referee didnt see it like that and only gave him a game. So were he to get banned for the slash then you could make a case for any slash done by a player this season, which again is a huge can of worms. But again I thought it was a very cheap move


At the end of the day There was nothing in Voth's actions that indicate he wanted to injure Dagenais, he's a big lad and had he really wanted to he could have taken Dagenais out but as it was he just gave him a few rabbit punches and we get this whole load of hype which at times is getting cringe worthy.

[Navunik]

check was it? I thought it was charging. And isn't the point that it was a series of attacks. Charging, Slashing, Fighting.

[Rocks LV]

It is getting a bit daft now! It's over and done with. Randy can't expect to do what he did ( I wasn't at the game so just going on what I've read) and not get their big guy to come after him. He's a pro hockey player for god sake, he's going to get the odd cheap shot especially from Voth. All this 'Voth should be banned' rubbish is making the club look a sham! Everyone knows Voth can hit, mostly legally but there has been the odd illegal hit - Tait and Sjrogen come to mind. He's the biggest hitter in the league and people are going to get hurt, if they keep there heads down cos thats the kind of player he is!

[Navunik]

was it even Dagenais.. game sheet says 17 2 mins for knee. That's Hewitt surely. They're calling for Dagenais to be banned on the Elite Forum.

[Finny]

was it even Dagenais.. game sheet says 17 2 mins for knee. That's Hewitt surely. They're calling for Dagenais to be banned on the Elite Forum.

Considering some of the messed up calls it wouldn't suprise me if the referee put the wrong player in the bin. He didn't give the other two fighters any penalties despite being sent to the dressing rooms.

I missed the actual kneeing incident as it was off the play. Silverthorn was approaching the blueline and dumped the puck into the corner for him and his Devils colleague to chase. I followed the puck and as I did so saw Silverthorn go flying out of the corner of my eye. When I turned back to look he was lying on the ice and I'd lost track of which Steelers player it was. When the penalty was eventually called, it was Hewitt who it was given to - who was on the bench. I have no idea if they had done a line change or whether the ref got it completely wrong. I guess only the video will show that.

It was Daganais though who slashed, cross-checked, mocked and tried to provoke Jarvis into a fight.

[Finny]

If Voth got a one game ban for the Slash on Dagenais Knee to be honest i wouldnt have any complaints, it was a poor show on his part and possibly deserved a match penalty. However the Referee didnt see it like that and only gave him a game. So were he to get banned for the slash then you could make a case for any slash done by a player this season, which again is a huge can of worms. But again I thought it was a very cheap move

Actually, it wasn't 5+game for slashing as was initially announced.
It was 5 minutes for slashing and the Game was a general misconduct - presumably for two major penalties.

[Gazzathedevil]

If Voth got a one game ban for the Slash on Dagenais Knee to be honest i wouldnt have any complaints, it was a poor show on his part and possibly deserved a match penalty. However the Referee didnt see it like that and only gave him a game. So were he to get banned for the slash then you could make a case for any slash done by a player this season, which again is a huge can of worms. But again I thought it was a very cheap move

Actually, it wasn't 5+game for slashing as was initially announced.
It was 5 minutes for slashing and the Game was a general misconduct - presumably for two major penalties.

Ahh i see, cheers finny.